I was very interested in the reports of the U-418 and its copper fog shroud in several recent issues of CJ, since I spotted some similar shrouds on a telephone line running along the coast just south of Santa Barbara, Cal. several years ago. These shrouds (somewhat smaller than the ones on the U-814's) were under what appeared to be common old Hemingray 42's. (See my sketch on page 28, Oct. '76 CJ, but may not be too accurate, since I was in a moving car at quite a distance.)

In the April. 1980 CJ, you mentioned that there was a patent for metal shrouds to protect insulators from damage from below. Could that be what this is? How about some info on that patent?
Mark Willke 
501 N. James St. (new) 
Silverton, OR 97381 

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Dear Mark: 

Of the 10 patents I found relating to protective shields, I'm enclosing duplicates of my patent file cards on the two which are most pertinent.

The 1937 gadget would seem to afford little protection from the kinds of missiles most kids are able to hurl up there. It also seems silly to protect breakage of the leakage path when you short out the leakage path with a metal cover as this device apparently does! 

The 1938 item might be practical mechanically, but the pan would have to have water drain holes and also be spaced away from the insulator, such as being held to the crossarm. with the pin flange.

Since missile breakage was only a major problem in populated urban areas, and since you saw these on a coastal line, I would think what you saw was some type of shroud related to protection from fog and salt deposits. If some collector in the area could visit the utility owning that line, he could probably get the answer and also be able to inspect one of the devices at the company shops. 

Jack

Dear Jack: 

I've always been a collector of Fred M. Locke glass, but now I also am collecting all types of Fred Locke and Victor insulators and related items. 

Recently I acquired a coffee mug and a small bowl, each incusely marked VICTOR on the bottom. I also have a brown ashtray, and on top LOCLE INSULATORS. How tough are they?

As I also specialize in CD-162 and CD-164 items, I picked up a U-242 porcelain with the Fred M. Locke marking, and is that a tough one? I picked up a Fred Locke U-55 and a U-220 transposition, and I guess we both know those two aren't easy.

I'm really curious about four U-675's I have. They all have the Fred M. Locke marking on one side of the skirt and on the other side each has VICTOR plus a different date in 1901. Any info on these datings? 
Paul Ickes 
Council Bluffs, Iowa 

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Dear Paul: 

There are a number of Fred Locke collecting buffs, and some of them also collect the other Imperial and early Thomas classics. Each of these people is undoubtedly keenly interested in the historical aspect of these oldies, not just setting them on a shelf and forgetting about them. Locke fans want to know exactly what items were made, the relative rarity of the items, best info as to the chronology of the designs, glaze type, marking varieties used, etc.

I think it would be a real boon to all the Locke fans collectively to somehow work (& collect) together as a group. A start would be to form a roster of all those interested, and this could be done simply by having someone volunteer to gather the info thru a request in CJ that Locke specialists make themselves known. 

The various advertisers (ashtrays, mugs, paper weights, match books and you-name-its) are popular with collectors in general, but are much sought after by those collecting all they can of one manufacturer. That is, anyone specializing in Illinois insulators would also likely be interested in obtaining Illinois advertiser items. 

All the companies made all sorts of these gadgets throughout the years (and up to the present). Since they were usually given away to utility customers, sales people, at trade shows, to plant visitors, etc., I'd think they would be very widely scattered -- and mostly in the hands of people who do not collect insulators. Some my have been made in limited quantity, but generally I think they made quite a mess of each one and just kept a store of them at the plant in a back closet, for giving out as the occasion arose. Naturally, an insulator plant with the means to make ceramic objects, and the flow of many tons of fine China clay daily, is an ideal setting for these types of "spare time" ventures.

If someone showed up with 100 different advertisers, probably 98 of them would be something I've never seen before. No end to possibilities. It would be meaningless to have someone guess at relative scarcity or rarity of these. Ditto regarding valuations. Something very old (or which appears old) might be more "valuable", and even modern ones which are very unusual items would be more eagerly sought than the more mundane mugs and ashtrays.

When I was at the I-T-E plant (Victor, NY) in 1972 or 1973, I was taken on a plant tour. To start the tour we entered the plant thru a particular room in which obviously a grandiose "Swiss Navy" project was being conducted. The whole place was covered with coffee mugs and the like -- ven a whole pallet of one variety. After the tour, we went to the cafeteria for lunch, and all the coffee mugs there (obviously made in the plant) had the I-T-E marking on them. Incidentally, that gob of mugs I saw in the production area had an incuse VICTOR stamped on the bottom. In other words, they should not be confused with the VICTOR marking of 80 years ago on Locke insulators.

Don't believe I've ever heard of a U-242 by Fred Locke, even though this design did originate and was cataloged by Fred Locke. I'd say it's probably a relatively rare Fred Locke as to specimens known. 

The various 1901 dates on your U-675 specimens are the actual manufacturing dates of those specific specimens. These dates appear on most cable styles of insulators they made during that particular era. Nearly all these dates I've ever seen are in the 1901 year, but some go back into 1900 -- notably DEC 1900. Can't recall for certain if I've heard of the dating going up into 1902, but I think not. These various insulators dated 1898-1901 have naturally been some help in determining what happened when. 

Jack

Dan McKay (N. Abington, Mass.) recently wrote about finding some nice power insulators, but which were firmly cemented to steel pins, and the question naturally was what could be used to dissolve away the cement. I suggested he might try muriatic acid (with care), and he sent back the following word.

"I obtained some muriatic acid and tried it out. It dissolved some of the cement and deteriorated part of the steel pin. I guess it will take some time to dissolve more of the cement and pin, but it does work." 

Porcelain collectors quite often have a need to remove steel pins cemented into normally threaded pin types. We'd appreciate hearing from anyone who knows the best chemical for accomplishing this.

Jack

Dear Jack: 

I'm enclosing a sketch of an insulator I have, and wonder if you can give info on it. The marking on the skirt is underglaze. 

I have two Locke handstamp errors to report. One is a U-755 with the spelling "LOCKR". 

The other is a U-802 which has a misspelling of "HI-TOR", LOCKE and also note the last letter of "USA" is after the "99". Have you heard of either of these errors before? 

In our area, almost all the lines have been reworked, so we don't see much of that old stuff here. But we have a lot of little power Co-ops which are very happy to have me cart off their old junk (to them anyway). In one haul alone I got three nice J-D, an old U-540 Pittsburg No. 2 cable in pretty mahogany, two different G.P. Co. items, a Hartford A105, a U-288 with the recess-embossed Westinghouse trademark, plus many others. 

Why did Thomas use two different glaze colors on the U-928 BOCH insulators -- the main parts with white glaze, but the glaze filling between the petticoats brown? 

The next time you are out and see an old multi-armed telephone pole, take a real good look at it, because next time you look it won't be there. They are a dying breed! 
Mike Spadafora, NIA #1869 
Goldsboro, NC (age 15) 

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Dear Mike: 

All of those old items you got from the utility company scrap pile are good collector items -- none rare, but all rather uncommon and good traders. As big a company as Jeffery-Dewitt was for so many years, they didn't aggressively market their smaller insulators, so most ordinary pin types are seldom seen with the J-D marking.

Your stud-mounted insulator with the through-hole is a wireholder. This large (2-1/2" x 4-3/4") size is termed a "Primary Lead Wireholder" and is used for higher voltages. A medium size used for secondary circuits is called a "Secondary Wireholder". A very small size for non-power use is termed a "Radio Wireholder". The large and medium size come with either stud, lag screw or pipe-mount bracket. The small size always has a lag screw for mounting. I don't know the meaning of the letters after the Line Material Co. trademark on your specimen. 

No, I hadn't heard of the "LOCKR" handstamp error, The single "R" under the name stands for "Radioproof". 

The "HI-TOR" error is also a new one. It could be that the last letter in USA just isn't visible, and that the 99A is the catalog number. Locke used several letter suffixes, including "A", on Hi-Top numbers to indicate different groove sizes on the same style of insulator. 

The various white glazeweld insulators such as the U-928 BOCH are normally all white. If yours showed they used a colored glaze slip for the glazewelding, that would be very unusual -- and first time I have heard of one like that.

I like your sketch of the old pole with multiple crossarms, and agree very much with your sentiments. In the past 10 years or so, practically all the old lines like that out here have been dismantled and vanished without a trace. Practically all the communications circuits across country here are now by radio link, and the ones in town are all by cable -- and mostly buried at that. Any new phone trunks in our mountain country in the past 20 or more years have been "Plowed in" per Forest Service regulations. Except in rural areas here, nearly all of the power lines 6600 volts or less are being put underground. 

Jack

Dear Jack: 

I know you don't need any more endorsements of your two works on porcelain, but they are great -- and wish more people would make the effort to pass on their knowledge in such forms and not just primarily price guides. The Electrical Porcelain book is especially interesting and has answered many questions I never realized I had until seeing the answers in the book. 

It appears many of the oval solid forestry insulators on the Deer Spring Lookout telephone line were glazewelded halves, and with three nipples so the entire insulator could be glazed and fired. These have the Triangle-M marking.

I have a white, 1-groove telephone knob with "U S A" recess-embossed on the unglazed bottom side, but no other marking. Is this a generic marking of the industry or one distinctive to a single manufacturer? 

Wish I was still living in the town, as the old garage behind my house had all kinds of old electrical porcelain insulators exposed in it. I think the house was built in the 20's or early 30's.
Carl-Eric Granfelt 
Box 38, Whiteriver, AZ 

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Dear Carl-Eric:

The one-groove phone knob with only "U S A" is probably P.P. Inc., but other companies also used either a plain "U S A" or that in addition to the company marking -- notably Thomas, Findlay and Wisconsin Porcelain. I wouldn't doubt that numerous others also used "U S A" on at least some dry press porcelain items. 

Over a period of several years I gathered up quite a few different round and oval forestry insulators from the remnants of various old lines all over the White Mtns. I know of none of those old tree-mounted lines which have not been abandoned and stripped of wire for many years, and you see the insulators hanging here and there. As time goes on, more and more of the trees will be logged out (or just fall over), so you see a few less insulators every year. 

Don't know if you knew it, but the early military telegraph line (circa 1880) up your way had cobalt blue E.C.& M.'s on it. The line came south from Holbrook, via Show Low area to Ft. Apache, hence via the old "military road" across the Black River to Ft. Thomas (Safford area). Most of the line was salvaged (removed) in 1950's, but there may be remnants on the reservation -- mainly near Black River and south of there on the reservation. We found several of the cobalts on the route north of Show Flake, but never tried very hard to find the old line between Ft. Apache and Black River crossing. Why don't you snoop around -- maybe also query some of the Indian cowboys working that area? 

Jack